Progression Raiding 101

Good morning class and welcome to progression raiding 101. The goal of this class is to inform you of how "progression" raiding differs from "normal" raiding and to hopefully make progression raiding fun/more efficient.

1. In normal raids wipes should be uncommon. In progression raids they are expected and should be anticipated. If you do not have gold to spend on repairs please save us all the trouble and don't come. If you do not want to spend a couple of hours attempting one boss then please don't come. Everybody understands that life happens, but when your Mom yells at you or your girlfriend bitches you out after the second wipe every fucking week then progression raiding is not for you, please don't waste our time and yours.

2. Show your ass up if you signed up. It's progression. We don't allow people into Naxx25 without 2.5k dps. Why? Because there are certain bosses that cannot be done without that amt of dps. With a progression fight you run up against bosses that are tuned to a higher gear level then we currently have. We need the gear that we are getting to go to people that will come raid with us again. Also if me and eight other people said we would be online at that time (giving up the same things as you, RL friends, a movie, going out to a bar, ect) then it's a real dick move to bail last min.

3. Don't play the blame game. The fight is new. Let me say it again. The fight is new. Were you able to ride a bicycle the first time your dad explained it to you? Prob not. You can watch all the youtube videos you want about riding a bike but until you get on and peddle you don't have a clue what it actually takes. Progression fights are fights that not many people in the guild have experienced first hand. Many times more then half the raid will seeing the encounter first hand for the very first time. Cut people some slack and don't bitch at them. Your not going to make them preform any better by telling them they suck. Frustrated people actually play worse. We can bitch at the asshole that puked during the Sapp fight after it has become trivial. Don't bitch at a perfectly fine raid member because they died to a mechanic they had not encountered before. Instead try helping them out. On the flip side if you don't know a fight do some research on it.

4. For fuck sake keep vent clear during boss explanations and fights. In case you haven't noticed when more then one person talks on vent everything becomes garbled. Leading to confusion then prob death.

5. Have fun. Everyone take a deep breath and realize it's a game. I know it's frustrating to wipe time and time again but it's worth it when you finally get it. Getting pissy at each other does not help.

-Awbry

I would have to agree with most of what you said awbry good post.

I fucking love you.

I have to agree with everything you wrote man. If I might add, even if you are of Raider or higher position you must have sufficient gold in your bags to cover repair costs. Choosing to leave fights due to insufficient funds after only a few wipes should be considered unacceptable during progression nights.

Despite some peoples opinions hearing the phrase "We need to burn him quick"(or any such variety) 7 times in 10 seconds does not increase my dps a magical 500% or anything like that.....
Say it once.. maybe twice then after that observe the "keep vent quiet in boss fights" rule.

I am sure the same goes for healers.....

antilles wrote:Despite some peoples opinions hearing the phrase "We need to burn him quick"(or any such variety) 7 times in 10 seconds does not increase my dps a magical 500% or anything like that.....
Say it once.. maybe twice then after that observe the "keep vent quiet in boss fights" rule.

As a healer it is very frustrating when DPS is too slow to kill something. In Vanilla WoW and arguably BC the DPS was never blamed for anything, and most people still revert back to "blame the healers" or "blame the tank" as we used to. That being said, it is also hard as a healer not to get frustrated when DPS is slow. If you can't burn quick enough you should step out of the fight, because you're just burning healer mana.

Keep vent quiet during raids should not apply to yelling at DPS to wake up. If you can't DPS as expected then dip out.

[quote="Munch] As a healer it is very frustrating when DPS is too slow to kill something. In Vanilla WoW and arguably BC the DPS was never blamed for anything, and most people still revert back to "blame the healers" or "blame the tank" as we used to.[/quote]

Trusst me, warlocks got sufficient blame on the BC era. ohoh like every wipe on the second boss in magisters with shithead pugs, when the mage wouldnt get the concept of "You take the first 4, ill take the last 6" they tended to kick me from the group. YAY PUGS! (this was inspite of how I took all 10, because mages were retarted"

im sure Ntropy and Kul were not this breed of mage...

I'm all about yelling at the dps to wake up. Problem is that we are now finding ourselves in some not so much smash face encounters but in surgical encounters. I.E. Auriaya which the flowers have to not all die at once and the other flowers that do. DPS smarter not harder. That and either we or the dps should be trying to get into PuG naxx25 runs and PuG uld25 runs to get gear.

-Awbry

If you say something is supposed to start at 630 st don't try to put together a group for A DIFFERENT instance at 624. This should be common sense. What is mostly guild progression should be more important that something that you are pugging.

It dosent matter when we set up a raid, if people arent on, they arent on, nothing we can do about that.

Also, this has been bugging me for a while now, people saying they wont come because they dont need anything from there.

New rule, if you dont help us get content on farm, you ARE NOT going to run with us when we have it on farm and are doing hard modes. This is final, either show up and help or dont show up at all. No more excuses that you dont need anything from a raid so your not going to come.

Uldar is not where it should be right now, we NEED to get all the bosses before mimiron on farm status and that requires our best geared players, not those that need the gear.

I agree IF it is guild.....showing up to gear up PuG's is counter intuitive. We can get 5 bosses down in an hour if we one shot them. With the 13 people that usually show up the first part of Ulduar 10 is easy mode.....we are working on doing them hard mode....showing up without this is literary handing PuG tanks and healers gear......look at me and Del....there is NOTHING we need from the first 5 bosses of Uld10. Why? Cus it's the same fucking shit we picked up from Naxx25. Blizzard has stated this is the way it's supposed to be. I want my teir gear as bad as the next guy but the only "fair" thing to do is once we get past the 'easy' first five bosses is to invite these PuG's back. If teir gear is going outside of guild then what is the fucking point past downing of the boss. Even at downing we can't even say it's progression. We did it with help.......

I want to see bosses....I want to work with the people in the Guild that show up......I can get a PuG....Final Chapter runs a PuG every week.....Fuck doing that....I wanna run with people that like having me around...not duchbags that take this game way to seriously...We have great vent runs when all of us show up. It's when we have to PuG people that shit gets retarded and stressful. I would really like to see, above Ironsoul (aka weapons), how many dps 'need' things they could not get in Naxx25. The 3 tanks we have that show up regularly need nothing.....healers = delistra (lets be honest with ourselves how many other healers show up usually) need nothing....SO for critical spots we have NO gear going in guild AND we have DPS gear going outside....so how are we supposted to even attempt Hard modes?

The argument is it's a chance at gear. Guild runs aren't about a 'chance'. I remember giving up Best in Slot healing rings to another healer back when I ran a healer to another guild member because they came every week they could. Giving up tanking gear to a person I have never seen and carried though an Uld run who prob won't join our guild because we already pulled him through content? Fuck no. I lost BoH to a guy that did less DPS then me as a fucking TANK main spec and died in a void zone cus that was the only fair thing to do....(which I agree with, I lost the roll you can't discriminate against PuG's if it's a PuG run).

So for me the choice is this. I can have our guild pull 3 people through 5 bosses worth of content which I have seen/ I don't need shit from for the 'chance' that they don't suck enough for us to attempt the keepers. OR I can wait until we have the 10 of us on that do a great job and attempt things that I have not gotten to before. For me the choice is clear. PuG runs suck. I don't need shit from the first bosses but I get to eat the repair bill anyway so that we can invite them back for a chance at teir gear. I have been in full guild runs that were awesome and those are the ones that I will give up my social life for on Wed/Thursday for, cus they are a lot of fun.

PuG=stressful
Guild=fun

My friends in Real Life > then a Pug
I have blown off my Real Life friends for a guild run.

-Awbry

I agree. I want to run with guild. But then people don't fucking show up. why do we even bother...

Like i said, if it comes down to it, and us bringing undergeared players through the first few bosses, and getting them geared to the point where they can do teir bosses then they're the ones that are comming to those bosses, not people that dont show up because they "dont need anything". As i said earlier, those that dont hellp us get content on farm status will not enjoy the fruits of our efforts when we blow through all the bosses up to general and yogg in one night.

Who knows, maybe these undergeared people we bring will be the oneswe down yoggy with.

I hope munch comes back soon. WE seemed to have alot less trouble with her around...

agreed, we need her badass priest healz

I will pull under geared guildies through bosses. I have no problem with that. But for every piece of gear that goes to somebody outside of guild that is one piece that we don't get to use for progression. I would be fine only running the first 5 bosses with a full guild run to gear up people.

Right now I feel like I am gearing up people that we never see again.

-Awbry

Awbry wrote:I will pull under geared guildies through bosses. I have no problem with that. But for every piece of gear that goes to somebody outside of guild that is one piece that we don't get to use for progression. I would be fine only running the first 5 bosses with a full guild run to gear up people.

Right now I feel like I am gearing up people that we never see again.

-Awbry

True but also, here is another delema.

If we dont have enough to run a full guild run, for whatever reason, and call it, then there is no chance at all of getting gulidies geared. If we PuG then we will run the instance and have a chance to get gear to guildies.

antilles wrote:I hope munch comes back soon. WE seemed to have alot less trouble with her around...

Aww shucks. I'm doing the best I can -- I promise!!

Hurry the fuck up.....i'm sitting here drunk with nobody to do it with....it's getting mildly pathetic/annoying.

-Awbry

Inashne wrote:agreed, we need her badass priest healz

see you tonight?

*crosses fingers*

damn. I may miss the triumphant return of the almighty munch. :-(

Hahaha noo you have to be there! What's tonight anyway? I mean other than Wednesday.

well i think they are finishing up naxx to gear up some guildies. and maybe starting ulduar depending on time. for me i am taking down a christmas tree and trying to patch some things up with the gf.